theophiles.org - Christian couple bans swearing in UK pub

Christian couple bans swearing in UK pub

Written by SasyMomaCat

Friday, 11 July 2008 19:09

Spotted by SasyMomaCat at the Daily Mail:

Of all the careers available to a devout Christian couple, revamping an urban pub and winning over its hardcore regulars was always going to be a gamble.
Sure enough, Krista and John Fleming found they were preaching to the unconverted - and the regulars had every intention of staying that way.
Now the Flemings, who banned swearing and gambling on horseracing, have been sacked after takings plunged.

Comments

metallurge - So which is the crack?

|2008-07-11 20:42:41

Trying to "convert" a pub? Or getting sacked for doing so?

;-)

SasyMomaCat - The couple had to be on crack ...

|2008-07-14 22:27:37

to think for a minute that legislating their own code of morality would do anthing beyond alienate the regulars.

Gee, who would have thought that people would get drunk and cuss in a pub? And they were worried about their kids hearing it. Seems that they should have thought of that before they made their career choice ...

I couldn't believe it when I saw it - sometimes the truth really is stranger than fiction.

OrionBlastar - It just shows how rotten people really are

|2008-07-15 16:55:17

cursing and gambling are sins. When you ban them from a pub, the pub loses money. Cursing and gambling are a lifestyle now that a majority of people do, and know they are wrong to do so, but do it anyway. When there is drinking or drug use involved, it only makes matters worse and only encourages more bad behavior and actions.

These is symptoms of a disease, a disease that UK society seems to be suffering from. One that gets in the way of a relationship with God as well as common decency, common sense, logic, reason, and good people. I am certain that the USA and the EU also suffers from this as most people turn away from God and spiritual things and move towards material things.

wezlo

|2008-07-15 17:40:54

I know we had this debate on X. way back when - but I have to ask, "Why is it that Christian equate modern 'cuss' words with the Biblical idea of cursing?"

I mean, I know that we call them "curse words," but really the name doesn't fit.

emperorbma

|2008-07-15 18:31:16

Even in the Hebrew Bible certain words aren't used except through euphemism. Note the use of "foot" and "navel" in the Song of Songs. Now consider that there are at least two modern "curse words" that are technically equivalent.

Certainly though they aren't the same, there is some precedent for the categories of forbidden words.

wezlo

|2008-07-15 21:01:20

No, that's exactly wrong. When someone is cursing someone in the Bible it's not a euphemism at all - they really are cursing the other person.

My question is, "Who makes these words forbidden?" We can actually trace the development of our modern swear-words to cultural developments (hint, there's a reason why people continue to say, "Pardon my French" when they swear). Does God think these words are forbidden?

emperorbma

|2008-07-15 22:19:55

Well, I do recall that listed among modern curse words are various invocations of God's condemnation and expletive uses of the name of Jesus and events surrounding His life. Albeit such curses are generally seen as minor nowadays.

The other terms, which are interpreted as strong today, seem to have been terms for extremely worldly acts that are attributed as sinful in some way. It seems the materialistic shift has shifted the conception of the profane/blasphemous as well. Now the profane words are seen as taboo and the sacred words are viewed with blase.

Quote:

(hint, there's a reason why people continue to say, "Pardon my French" when they swear)

I take it you mean sacres, right?

wezlo

|2008-07-16 08:24:50

On the last part, no. Think about how the English language developed during the transition from an Anglo-Saxon to Norman rule.

Using the name of Jesus would be a blasphemy - which is why is used they way it is. It's still not a curse.

"Go to Hell" is a curse as would be "damning someone." I'm still trying to figure out how these actual curses got linked to "forbidden words."

emperorbma

|2008-07-16 13:00:08

Hmm. The linguistic shifts of the Norman conquest aren't something I'm too well acquainted with, unfortunately.

I think, however, that at some point the concept of expletive was generalized as "curse words," probably owing to a more materialistic worldview which didn't consider the sacred as important.

metallurge - re:

|2008-07-16 23:08:40

wezlo wrote:

"Go to Hell" is a curse as would be "damning someone."

"Get thee behind me" has always worked for me in those rare occasions.

wezlo wrote:

I'm still trying to figure out how these actual curses got linked to "forbidden words"

What does one expect when one divorces oneself from Tradition? That may sound like I'm grinding some sort of axe, but really I'm not. Crack Biblical interpretations tend to flourish in such an environment. If there is no orthodoxy, there can be no heresy/error.

wezlo

|2008-07-17 07:22:47

Eh, I'm not sure that's it - care to ruminate more?

metallurge - re: re:

|2008-07-18 00:20:49

metallurge wrote:

wezlo: I'm still trying to figure out how these actual curses got linked to "forbidden words"

What does one expect when one divorces oneself from Tradition? That may sound like I'm grinding some sort of axe, but really I'm not. Crack Biblical interpretations tend to flourish in such an environment. If there is no orthodoxy, there can be no heresy/error.

"forbidden words" is an example of a class of churchy behaviors. It's what happens when people look around them to see if they fit in. It's more of a church-culture thing than a theology thing.

Now, maybe I'm going too far to say that people who don't think straight about God (they are unorthodox) tend to latch onto something else to define normative behavior. Something besides Tradition that is.

It's actually quite sad, really. True Christianity ought to be seen to have a high degree of personal freedom, and a high willingness to set aside that freedom for the cause of Christ.

False Christianities tend to have rules for rules' sake. Kindof like cults do, it becomes more about the exercise and preservation of power than it is about doing the right thing in God's eyes.

I think that the faux curse words thing is one of those "rules for rules' sake" things.

To bring it back to my original point, if you are "thinking straight about God" (orthodox), then the genuine problems you might face are quite serious (error/heresy). If you are not thinking straight about God, it's follow the leader and whatever crack ideas they may be teaching.

And think about it... who's really going to stand up for 'bad words' in church? Anyone who makes a claim of authority in such matters is going to win by default.

wezlo

|2008-07-18 11:45:54

Now I see where you're coming from. Thanks - yah, I think I can agree with that.

You rock.

Entity

|2008-07-16 10:13:01

So, are you saying that it is OK for Christians to use foul language, that it is not as bad as cursing someone, or that it is simply different from cursing someone?

We had a priest in high school who started off his Catholic Faith course with distinguishing between cursing, swearing, and foul language. He listed examples of each, told us what they really meant, and said that while he did not want to hear foul language, cursing was absolutely forbidden. (It was funny hearing a priest sounding like George Carlin.)

wezlo

|2008-07-16 14:54:03

Different.

And I think the priest had it right.

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Last Updated on Friday, 11 July 2008 19:14

Our valuable member SasyMomaCat has been with us since Monday, 07 April 2008.

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