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A Prayer for Obama: Psalm 109:8
Prayer
Written by laika   
Thursday, 19 November 2009 17:06

At USA Today:

A crop of bumper stickers and T-shirts emblazoned with [a] call to prayer for the president have appeared for sale recently online through make-it-yourself outlets such as Zazzle.com and CafePress.com. And most of the "Pray for Obama" slogans are accompanied by a scripture reference: "Psalm 109:8."

In the New International Version translations, that verse reads;

May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership.

Comments
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patronpeter  - ouch   |2009-11-20 09:26:57
you stay classy Zazzle.com

http://www.zazzle.com/bush_the_evolution_of_man...
docbob   |2009-11-20 09:41:23
Is the implication here that one is as bad as the other? I hope not. Comparing a man to an ape is not as bad as wishing utter ruin on him and his family.
Entity  - re:   |2009-11-21 09:59:52
docbob wrote:
Is the implication here that one is as bad as the other? I hope not. Comparing a man to an ape is not as bad as wishing utter ruin on him and his family.


I don't see any problem with the single verse listed. Its context does make it troubling, but people have been ignoring the context of scripture verses for years. Why does context all of the sudden matter to liberals when they have been quoting Matthew 7:1 for eons out of context?

I certainly do not wish Obama death, but I will pray that God makes him a 1 term president, which I believe is the spirit of what these people are praying. Or they could pray for what happened in Daniel 4:26-34 to Nebuchadnezzar, which ultimately turned out for the best for Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon.
holmegm  - re: re:   |2009-11-21 10:39:56
Entity wrote:

I certainly do not wish Obama death, but I will pray that God makes him a 1 term president, which I believe is the spirit of what these people are praying. Or they could pray for what happened in Daniel 4:26-34 to Nebuchadnezzar, which ultimately turned out for the best for Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon.


He's not (I hope ...) a king for life, so his death is not required to end his wicked reign and his power.
WebbedFeetOfClay   |2009-11-21 11:22:15
I've not been a particularly huge fan of this administration so far (then again I'm a borderline anarchist), but I have a hard time seeing how it's been effectual or active enough to be counted "wicked"?

What has brought you to that conclusion?
metallurge  - re:   |2009-11-21 12:19:14
WebbedFeetOfClay wrote:
I've not been a particularly huge fan of this administration so far (then again I'm a borderline anarchist), but I have a hard time seeing how it's been effectual or active enough to be counted "wicked"?

What has brought you to that conclusion?
I think it is a separate issue. Wicked has more to do with intent than with competence. But if Obama is wicked, then one's definition of wickedness would seem to encompass the Democratic Party in its entirety. I'd be curious to see if people would actually own up to this explicitly.
WebbedFeetOfClay   |2009-11-21 14:42:47
even on a level of stated intent, I'm curious if we've got much that musters "wicked"
just seems like inflationary vocab.

although I suppose the term has other baggage, being from MA, i'm uncertain if holmegm is just colloquially expressing how awesome he thinks this administration is.
metallurge  - re:   |2009-11-21 19:46:30
WebbedFeetOfClay wrote:
although I suppose the term has other baggage, being from MA, i'm uncertain if holmegm is just colloquially expressing how awesome he thinks this administration is.
LOL.
holmegm  - re:   |2009-11-22 06:19:37
WebbedFeetOfClay wrote:
even on a level of stated intent, I'm curious if we've got much that musters "wicked"


I could make a list, but you'd dispute every point. I'm not sure it's worth either of our time.

The baby slaughter is enough for me ... I mean, any discussion after that seems kind of pointless.
WebbedFeetOfClay   |2009-11-22 07:34:43
I think we can agree abortion is a great evil.

That said, what has he done on those lines? He's had some hypothetical bits of rhetoric on it that he hasn't made any substantiated efforts at following through on (The planned parenthood pandering seems pretty balanced out by the "reduction of abortions" lines). FOCA seems like it's never legitimately been on the table. As it stands he's changed nothing about the state of abortions in this country, so It seems hard to distinguish him from any president post Roe v. Wade. (I'll leave aside my hesitance about legal allowance being the same thing as moral encouragement, and my specific concerns that illegalizing abortion may not be a particularly effective method of reducing them.)
grizzly  - re: re:   |2009-11-21 17:21:12
metallurge wrote:
But if Obama is wicked, then one's definition of wickedness would seem to encompass the Democratic Party in its entirety. I'd be curious to see if people would actually own up to this explicitly.

I would say the following. If Obama is wicked (which I would agree with), then most of the Democratic Party is wicked. There may be some that are not, such as the pro-life Democrats.

Of course, most of the Republican Party is also wicked.

And we are all sinners.
metallurge   |2009-11-21 19:45:58
I guess I tend to be with Webby, I think the meaning of wicked has been inflated. I think most politicians these days are not good for the people whom they allegedly serve, and I am amazed that we keep electing the sort of people that we do. We could do so much better...

Certainly, we are all sinners. No question.

Basically praying for the end of Obama, with the implicit assumption that simply putting in a Republican instead is going to fix things, is... not a morally defensible position, IMHO.

I do not believe that a pro-choice legal position taints someone to the degree of wickedness. I believe that ultimate responsibility and accountability for the undeniable wickedness of most abortions devolves to a much lower level, to those directly responsible for it. The overarching issue of legality in a pluralistic society is very much secondary to me.

I guess I personally hold allegedly Christ-confessing politicians to a higher moral standard, which is why I tend to be more disgusted by, even morally offended by, most Republican politicians.
holmegm  - re:   |2009-11-22 06:24:09
metallurge wrote:
with the implicit assumption that simply putting in a Republican instead is going to fix things, is... not a morally defensible position, IMHO.


I don't make any such assumption - though given the realistic possibilities, it's more likely (however slightly) to be a better bet.

metallurge wrote:

I guess I personally hold allegedly Christ-confessing politicians to a higher moral standard, which is why I tend to be more disgusted by, even morally offended by, most Republican politicians.


I can see that point of view.

On the other hand, I guess I'll take the guy who doesn't get around to removing the high places or whatever over the more wicked kings ...
metallurge  - re: re:   |2009-11-21 12:10:41
Entity wrote:
I don't see any problem with the single verse listed. Its context does make it troubling, but people have been ignoring the context of scripture verses for years. Why does context all of the sudden matter to liberals when they have been quoting Matthew 7:1 for eons out of context?
You can't just dodge accountability on this by blaming the liberal strawman. Are you actually proposing that what is right for you (or other conservative Christians) to do, is actually up to the judgment and standards of liberals?
MakaDad   |2009-11-20 11:05:05
And, if I'm not mistaken, Zazzle lets anyone sell designs. Zazzle is just a "take your image and make shirts for you" place.
Entity   |2009-11-21 09:43:26
Not quite everyone. Cafe Press and Zazzle have removed this one.
docbob   |2009-11-20 09:38:07
WOW! Take a verse out of context! Much as I do not care for his politics I would never pray this over the man.
PineHall  - Pray Blessing   |2009-11-20 10:03:37
Yes, 1 Timothy 2:1-3 say we should pray for our government leaders and the context is not to pray for their death, rather that they may lead well.
emperorbma   |2009-11-20 13:18:05
PineHall wrote:
pray ... that they may lead well.


Indeed, a thing that I've seen our own church doing despite considerable disagreement with Obama's policies.
emperorbma   |2009-11-20 14:23:19
Yes, context is the key... it isn't even talking about politics but about so-called friends who attack without cause and, by extension, the effects of unbelief on the unbeliever who does such things.

(analyzing the entire passage)

I'm pretty sure we would not really want that "evil man" who would oppose him if we did get a "yes" for this prayer. (Hint: name means "accuser" in Hebrew...) In fact, it's actually a prayer of damnation that is only properly used in context of the Final Judgment with respect to those who persecute. One would net the same effect by saying "damn him to Hell" without all the potent imagery and exposition offered in the Psalm.

It's really not something for petty politics and we shouldn't be casting those with whom we disagree as irrevocably damned blasphemers of the Spirit. One also has to love the smugness in assuming that oneself is the "righteous one" as the conclusion adds.  Rather, in the proper context of the Church, that latter part is the Gospel and salvation through Christ, who alone is the Righteous One, and who was persecuted for our transgressions and through whom we are spared from this same righteous fruit of our own sins being visited upon us...

Seeing how someone would (ab)use this inspired prayer certainly does tell one about the state of being "sinner and saint" in this age because when it is read carelessly it looks like a self-righteous revenge trip by proxy of God's wrath.

Summary: Can we, as a people of grace and redeemed from our own sin, really ask God to visit wrath upon someone with whom we disagree for something so trivial when it is certainly for far less than the blood of His own Son of which we, through our sin, are all guilty? That being the case, leave such judgment to the One without sin and recognize oneself, rightly, as the "scornful and traitorous friend" to our Lord whom He saved from this fate.
shamrockshake  - context   |2009-11-21 15:05:12
Forget the political side for a moment: what does this say about how some Christians interpret scripture? Pick. choose. find a word or phrase we like, regardless of the actual context. How might we better teach biblical interpretation in the church?
holmegm   |2009-11-20 10:45:44
Oh goodness ... after the Eight Years Hate directed at Mr. Bush, this is like a bunch of zombies complaining about "all the cannibalism around here" ;)
emperorbma   |2009-11-20 14:32:48
Quote:
a bunch of zombies complaining about "all the cannibalism around here" ;)


I must say, you've always got the most interesting metaphors.
WebbedFeetOfClay   |2009-11-21 08:44:01
1) are zombies really cannibals? Are they still human enough for it to count? or am I entirely mistaken and you're talking about zombies eating zombies? (sorry, I know, some controversial stuff.)

2)while I agree that treatment of GWB was downright unchristian (though I think much of his politics were as well) and uncalled for, your missing a couple things. two wrongs not making right. But more importantly and more troublingly, this particular assault is one so couched in the distortion of our faith (by people professing it) to be a real concern for those who care about the faith. Our Faith was mocked left and right in mocking the Bush administration but it was from a secular vantage point, but now we're going to show that mockery on point by reducing faith to hatchet politics. it's shameful.
shamrockshake   |2009-11-21 15:00:29
Let's not forget our history: that "Eight Years Hate" was preceded by another 8 yrs of hate toward Pres. Clinton by the other side. It's not right when anyone does it. When does the tit-for-tat BS stop? Or, Who will be big enough or generous enough to try a better way?
Entity  - re:   |2009-11-22 08:48:41
shamrockshake wrote:
Let's not forget our history: that "Eight Years Hate" was preceded by another 8 yrs of hate toward Pres. Clinton by the other side. It's not right when anyone does it. When does the tit-for-tat BS stop? Or, Who will be big enough or generous enough to try a better way?


And 4 years of ridiculing Quayle. But it will never stop. Look through our history's past and you will see constant hate lobbed at the presidents.
WebbedFeetOfClay  - I hate President X   |2009-11-22 15:51:11
I think I should just create some variable exchange anti-president hate pizazz, for whoever gets elected in the future. start lobbing mindless antagonism at whatever sorry son-of-a-whichever happens to be elected in 2016.
SteveGus   |2009-12-04 16:56:50
Some more models of effective witness from probably the same folks.
emperorbma   |2009-12-04 17:59:58
Their usage of apostrophes is telling. (and I don't mean the metaphorical kind)

[edit] dagnabbit, the commenter on the original post beat me to it :P
Entity   |2009-12-05 08:42:04
I wonder what he doesn't like about Preachers' Kids.

I've got to agree with him on Sports Nuts though. Particularly any that cheer for Ohio State.
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