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"I Screamed, But There Was Nothing to Hear"
Abortion & Life
Written by MonkeyBoy   
Monday, 23 November 2009 13:00

Spotted by MonkeyBoy at the DailyMail:

A car crash victim has spoken of the horror he endured for 23 years after he was misdiagnosed as being in a coma when he was conscious the whole time.

Rom Houben, trapped in his paralysed body after a car crash, described his real-life nightmare as he screamed to doctors that he could hear them - but could make no sound.

'I screamed, but there was nothing to hear,' said Mr Houben, now 46, who doctors thought was in a persistent vegatative state.

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metallurge   |2009-11-23 13:42:21
Pretty much the nightmare scenario.
emperorbma   |2009-11-23 18:52:56
Even with the medicine we do know rather well, there are "nightmare scenarios," though. There are thousands of cases of doctors making wrong diagnoses or failing to remove tools during surgery with medical disciplines that are extremely well established.

The thing about it is that with the very young medical fields, we have far less of a clue what we're doing and there is a lot more room for an egregious misunderstanding of the situation such as what has obviously happened here. I'm not meaning to come off as anti-medicine, because I'm not, but it surely behooves us that our medical professionals should err on the side of caution and don't write people off as a vegetable at the first opportunity. The article is right that this might add more flames to the "right to life" debate, and, really, shouldn't it?

It will become especially important that precautions be taken as we begin to advance into these extremely advanced fields because we have only begun to understand what is possible. Especially as our advances take us towards being able to alter the fundamentals of our mental and genetic health.
OrionBlastar  - Actually Science and Medicine   |2009-11-23 21:32:14
are growing every day with new discoveries and new advances. New technology and new diagnostic tools are being developed and invented.

The "right to life" debate should also be a Humanitarian issue as well as a religious issue, if a person is still alive but needs medical help to live and there is any chance of recovery however slight, it should be good morals to keep that person alive until a cure can be found. Another nightmare scenario is letting a relative die while in such a state and then two days later a cure for that incurable condition is found.

In Science Fiction there are corpscicles in which even after a person has died or near death they are frozen until a cure can be found to cure their illness and revive them. There exists companies that will freeze heads or the entire body for money to keep them preserved until a future cure is found. So that isn't just Science Fiction, but is actually being done by some people.

Medicine, Science, Technology, etc don't hold all of the answers or cures, but we shouldn't try to stop them from discovering them. Even if it means allowing stem cell research, we can compromise and say use adult stem cells instead of fetal stem cells, until the stem cell process is perfected and then we can vote on using fetal stem cells or not. If not then China and other nations will pass us up because they have no issues about stem cells as we do.
emperorbma   |2009-11-23 21:42:29
The bad news about cryogenics is that the microscopic ice crystals probably will have destroyed the tissues, though. Same principle as frostbite, only on a total system failure scale. There is some research into certain kinds of cicadas (I think) that can survive winter freezings though...
CoffeeZombie  - re: Actually Science and Medicine   |2009-11-24 14:08:41
OrionBlastar wrote:
Even if it means allowing stem cell research, we can compromise and say use adult stem cells instead of fetal stem cells, until the stem cell process is perfected and then we can vote on using fetal stem cells or not.
No one, that I am aware of, is opposed in any way to the use of adult stem cells; the only issue people are protesting is the fetal stem cell research.

The only people who have a hang-up about stem cells in general are 1) the people who don't know there is such a thing as adult stem cells, and 2) the people who seem hell-bent on fetal stem cells being the only viable option (and then say the anti-fetal-stem-cell people are just anti-stem-cell).
emperorbma   |2009-11-24 17:24:54
Somehow I think that there would be far less pro-life objection to fetal stem cells if the whole embryo was not being destroyed. If the embryo is still viable after the process, then it basically would be the same as transplantation of a kidney from a living donor or perhaps like a blood transfusion. (albeit, in this case, the embryo technically can't give dissent or consent in any coherent manner that we are aware. Nevertheless, since there would be no real functional difference in the resulting child from either situation since stem cells are literally drop-in replacements that can replace any losses in their numbers, it mitigates any objections on the grounds of non-consent anyway...)

The concern with fetal stem cells as they are used now that an unborn life is being destroyed needlessly. If the destruction factor were removed even fetal stem cells could be feasibly unobjectionable. I know of no pro-life person or group that rejects adult stem cells since it entails a similar rationale to that which I presented for my hypothetical scenario. Of course, I may just be speaking for myself, but I do think that we who are pro-life aren't merely being sticks in the mud just to be sticks in the mud.
OrionBlastar  - I hope it wasn't a Terri Shivo situation   |2009-11-23 17:58:57
in which being in a coma means the same thing as being braindead. She had brain damage but only after being starved to death as the feeding tube was removed due to a court order, and then inserted back in after another court order and she failed to die. Had they kept the feeding tube in her, she wouldn't have had the brain damage.

Yes Metallurge that is the Nightmare Scenario for anyone, being alert but not being able to do anything, and then people start to talk about pulling out that feeding tube and letting you die.
metallurge   |2009-11-23 18:23:17
Mr. Houben's diagnosis of being in a persistent vegetative state was the same as Ms. Schiavo's. It would appear now that their underlying physical conditions were significantly different, but I guess this just points out the deficiencies of the diagnostic tools which are being used, and/or the reliability of the diagnosis itself.
laika   |2009-11-24 11:44:49
thanks, MonkeyBoy! your submission is disturbing to think about, but it's nice to see you.
TheophileEscargot  - Followup   |2009-11-25 07:28:22
From the Daily Mail again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/artic...

Experts today cast doubt on claims that a man who doctors had believed was in a 23-year coma is truly conscious and communicating on his own.

Belgian Rom Houben communicates with the help of a speech therapist who moves his finger letter by letter along a touch-screen keyboard.

But now experts have slammed the method as 'Ouija board communication', saying it had been 'completely discredited'.
emperorbma   |2009-11-25 13:54:01
Now wouldn't this just be the most convenient explanation for skeptics? Easy enough to test the hypothesis though. Just have him use the touch screen by himself or with help from someone who doesn't know any English.
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